New Tank Cycling; Aquarium Blog

 

From the Everything Aquatic Thread: New tank cycling parameter confusion by Aquaglory (Nicole)


Hi everyone. It's been a while...

Well, I don't think my tank is fully cycled, yet (I'm at day 33). The pH dropping to 6.0 probably stalled the process, along with some leftover plant decay (from before I had adequate lighting) and from new plants suffering from shipping. I had done some spotty water changes to try to bring up the pH and to get rid of as much decaying plant material as possible, and then the last couple of times added a small amount of bicarb with the water change. When I did this last kind of water change, I noticed that my ammonia went to 0.25ppm, nitrite 0.25ppm, and nitrate 5ppm. I added Amquel plus to protect the cardinals. I have to admit that the last time I added bicarbonate, the pH went up too quickly from 6.0 to 6.5 and I think this triggered an Ich infection. At least the pH has finally stabilized in the past couple of days.

I started Seachem Paraguard yesterday (I had seen one spot on one cardinal the day before yesterday. Today I saw a different cardinal with a single spot, but none on the others). All cardinals are acting lively and healthy, feeding eagerly on Spirulina flakes and picking on the occasional detritus worm (not as many in the tank as before, now). I also added Nitromax (even if it's not ideal, I wanted to boost the system while I was treating with Paraguard, also to help bring down the ammonia/nitrite levels). Interestingly, before adding either the Paraguard or Nitromax yesterday, the parameters were: ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, and nitrate 5. I have a lot of plants in the tank with fairly vigorous growth (had to prune some yesterday). I have only tested the pH today, but am planning to test the other parameters, later.


SOOOOO....... What would I do differently if I were to start this process all over again? Carl may or may not disagree with some of this, but I think I would try it this way:

-In this particular situation, I knew I wanted some plants that require better lighting. I would try to start out with the right lighting first to minimize plant die-off in the beginning. The AquaRay GroBeam 500 is working great for my 36 gallon bow front. If anyone is wondering, my plants are doing significantly better than when I had just the T-8 bulb that came originally with the tank. I use both of them, now. As an example, I have some Telanthera reineckii that, after about a third of it melting, is now growing well with the tops of the leaves bronze colored and the undersides very dark pink.

-The Baylee's Better Bottom substrate (meant for plants) that I got on AquaBid.com has worked extremely well for me, so far, so I would use it again. I chose the very fine gravel for easier planting.

-I would fill the tank with treated water, using Seachem Prime (I had avoided it because I had not read the label properly and thought that it coated the fish to give them a slime coat. I didn't want it to coat my Neocaridina shrimp that I have in my 5 gallon tank). I now realize I was wrong, Seachem Prime STIMULATES the slime coat PRODUCTION by the fish rather than choking the fish with some kind of Aloe vera-like coating all over, including the gills. At this point, I will just finish off the Amquel plus/API tap-water conditioner combination that I've been using, so far. This combination is a bit redundant, but the API tap-water conditioner neutralizes toxic metals while the Amquel plus does not. Seachem Prime does it all.

-I would then let things run for 24 hours to let things settle a bit. The tank will be super cloudy at this point.

-I would only bring my pH down from 7.8 (what's in my tap water) to 7.4 or 7.5, but wait until the tank was established before trying to adjust it further. (When I first filled this current tank, I had brought the pH to my desired 6.8 pH level, then the plant decay drove it down further.)

-If I were smart and planned way ahead, I would have place the sponge and the ceramic chips from the new filter into my established tank 2 OR 3 WEEKS PRIOR to starting the new tank. OR If I had media that I could use from an old, non-infected tank, I would then use that in the new tank-- either filter media/sponge or gravel.

-I would still add the driftwood from the established tank. Prior to adding any new/dry driftwood, I would soak it, like I did, for a long time in hot tap water with very frequent total water replacement (at least daily) until the water was not turning yellow much, anymore. Then, when I was ready to place it in the tank, I would soak it one more time but in treated water to get rid of any chlorine/chloramine.

By the way, for any "newbies" reading, the new driftwood developed an unsightly translucent white film for a couple of weeks that eventually went away on its own (the old driftwood did not). Just leave the film alone-- you can't get rid of it manually anyway; all you will do is dislodge swaths of it that will float around your tank.

If I didn't have any media I could use from an old tank, I would use one of the bacterial starters on the market.
I would even consider trying the Tetra Safe Start again, but this time adding it to the tank the day after starting to add some fish food or ammonia drops (Tetra recommends starting with fish the day BEFORE adding the Safe Start so ammonia would be present, but that would be cycling with fish). If I had the money, I would consider the Turbostart700 (super expensive, though). If fish were in the tank, I would minimize feeding (no more than a flake a day) until the tank appeared to be cycled so that the ammonia would not build up too quickly. (I may not feed much more than that even after the tank was cycled.)

Of note: I had kind of started cycling the tank with fish food, but did not continue to add food daily, so I think the ammonia never adequately built up to get the nitrification started. I was concerned about pollution from the food itself. I also mistakenly thought that the decaying plants would provide the ammonia needed. I didn't realize that that decay was actually slowing the process.

-Though I might add plants from day one, I would not add any frilly plants like Myriophyllum (frill), Hornwort, or Cabomba until later in the process when the nitrites would start to show. These fine leaved plants were the ones that disintegrated the most in the beginning and caused the pH crash. If I did add plants from the start, I would first choose Java Fern and/or Annubias, since these are tough plants that tend not to disintegrate so rapidly, if at all, under proper conditions. If there were any plant decay, I would promptly remove it (even with scissors or with a fish net, if necessary).

-Then, I would let the system "roll", adding the necessary ammonia (see Carl's info on cycling tanks) until I would see those sought-after nitrites, followed by nitrate spikes... SIGH...... Also, I read online that water changes ARE advocated to maintain levels of ammonia not too much above 1ppm. This person did a little experiment and actually found that, not only were water changes OK, but the tank that had water changes done cycled faster by one day. (He had 2 tanks both fishless cycled from scratch, using ammonia drops- same dose in both tanks. One tank he left alone other than dosing ammonia, the other he maintained lower ammonia levels with water changes). By the way, this guy also advocated maximum water circulation to optimize oxygenation.

So I hope this little summary of the lessons I have learned so far will help someone else...

(I keep hoping I'm close to cycled!!! LOL)

Nicole


Suggested Reading:

• “The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle”
• “Aquarium Nitrates”
• “Hydrogen Sulfides”
• “Use of RO and Household Soft Water in Aquarium”

Other Reading of Aquatic Interest:

• “Aquarium Lighting”
• “Aquarium Planaria”
• “Wonder Shells”

Aquarium Chemistry Suggestions; from Everything Aquatic

Threads from Everything Aquatic Members

This post takes posts from many different threads at the Everything Aquatic Board (which do not appear in internet searches as Pro Boards uses “no follow” tags)
The obvious theme is aquarium chemistry as it pertains to minerals and buffers in aquariums and the importance of positive mineral ions for fish health, disease prevention/treatment and more.

Kagome:
I put a medicated wondershell in my 20g and this cleared up the floating algae. I now that I have changed the light in the ceiling next to it and have blocked off the sun coming in the nearest window I think I have finally beaten this back enough to resolve this issue. I am still very careful with food and have upped the cleaning schedule a bit. Things in that tank must not be going too bad because the rams are about to spawn again. They have dug a new nest and are guarding it.

fishfever:
So in summary I'd say you need to focus on getting the tank cycled either with fish or without (without is less work IMHO and usually won't require a lot of water changes). I'd consider upgrading the filtering depending on how much of a bio-load you plan on having. For example mollies are great community fish and very personable and friendly (ours lets us pet them for example) but they are also voracious eaters and create a lot of waste. They also get quite big (the 2 adults we own have doubled in length and probably quadrupled in mass/weight) so I'd say one is plenty for a 10g tank! Keep max fish growth size in mind unless you plan to upgrade to a larger tank in the future. Spot test your tap water so you know what you are dealing with; for example my tap water is soft and acidic so I treat it by adding Wonder shells to my tank to get the missing minerals and adding buffer to raise the pH to a level I'm targeting (and more importantly adding buffering capacity to keep the pH stable). Good luck and keep us posted!

fishfever:
You said the molly was hanging around the top which is usually a sign of stress and/or not being able to get enough oxygen. I've seen this before - in fact just recently with a blue Mickey Mouse platy we just got. We put her in an isolation tank with a medicated Wonder shell for about 1.5 weeks and gave her a couple of salt/MB baths and now she is doing very well in our main tank. Mollies are pretty hardy fish but if this one is already stressed it may not be the best one for cycling with fish.

fishfever:
I also have livebearers and tetras in the same tank with tetras generally preferring somewhat more acidic, softer water and livebearers preferring more basic, harder water. So I kind of split the difference on the pH (tap is very soft and acidic, about 6.4) and use Malawi buffer to keep it in the 7.0 to 7.4 range. Your GH/KH seems like it might be enough for tetras but I think you want higher numbers for the livebearers... an excellent and cheap way to do this is to keep Wonder shells in your tank. I always have 2 medium sized ones in my 26g, one that is almost wasted and one that is almost new. As babygeige says, once you decide on a target pH (if different from your tap), keep it consistent (so if it's different from your tap use the right amount of buffer with each water change).

Although this is subjective, the general health of my fish over the long term has improved since I started using the UV sterilizer. I am using the 5W terminator in my 26g (the UV Bulb should be replaced every six months for optimum effectiveness). I would recommend getting the kit form with the pump and tubes so there's nothing else to buy to get going with it. I was able to get mine hooked up and running in much less than an hour.

babygeige:
A lot of the science can be confusing, but I think the most important thing is to keep your tank consistent. Chasing after a specific pH, GH or KH number with chemicals will usually cause more harm than good. Wonder shells are handy for helping with minerals and such. Consistent cleaning and water changes will help you keep things in order.

ironbiker:
All the other fish appear fantastic, including the two other Monos.. I use the Seachem Malawi /Victoria Buffer in conjunction with the Salt...I also used a product called AragaMight by CaribSea I was told it was a similar product to Wonder Shells, which I cant find locally. I just re-read the whole thread and noticed you mentioned the salt ratio of 1 " Tablespoon" per 5 gal. .....my ratio is basically 1 "Teaspoon" for 10 gal which would mean I am at a lot less them your recommendations...3 teaspoons =1 Tablespoon...and my ratio is based upon 10 gal instead of 5... I am guessing my salt levels are way to low... ::) I have spent many hours on this forum reading the many informative and very helpful tips and articles posted by you , I have learned SO MUCH, since I found this place , I really cant thank you and everyone else enough for all your help and guidance....and A Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family

goldenpuon:

I counted my fish (Guppies) and again I got the feeling that a fish was missing. I kept trying to get the number of fish (again they swim super fast so trying to get their numbers is extremely difficult) and came to the conclusion that there was only 9 plus one of my blue tailed females was nowhere to be found. I searched around and then finally found her, mildly wet and flopping on the floor under my dresser. I immediately put her back in but shockingly, her only symptoms of stress was that her breathing was slightly heavy, her tail fin was dulled in color, and her dorsal fin partially down. I put in a regular wonder shell for a day to help with stress just in case. She is doing better now and is schooling with the others and eating well.

goldenpuon:
I have had scoliosis develop in young bettas and guppy fry before. Much of the time, even if the scoliosis was bad, they still ate well and acted healthy. I actually have a male betta that is almost two years old that developed scoliosis about a month ago. I have increased his food intake (he was losing weight as well) and added wonder shells and he is doing better now.

My best advice would be to feed her good quality food, keep the best water parameters possible, and if she is lacking any nutrients, add a wonder shell to the tank. Also, is she showing any other symptoms? In my experience, scoliosis is a sign of a deformed fish but not sickly one. If it is scoliosis and you take good care of her, she may last a while to come. Best of luck with her!

For recommended related reading information:
*Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle- this is by far the most accurate/researched article dealing with the aquarium & pond nitrogen cycle!

Other Suggested Resources:

*Aquarium Chemistry
*Aquarium Redox
*A Healthy Aquarium; Disease Prevention
*Freshwater Care, Basics to Advanced
*Aquarium Tap Water Use